Comments for Helping faculty members understand the mind of a dean

Comment on Thinking about deacons, elders, and paid ministers by Darryl Ammon

Darryl Ammon — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:42:00 +0000

I have also served in all of the capacities which you have mentioned and think that your model is consistent with every Church that I have served in. But I am wondering about the role of Deacons as Church leaders. Although it is true that historically for most of Christendom there has been some kind of an understanding of deacons as implementers of the physical ministries of the Church and the Elders as the ones responsible for the Spiritual needs of the church (based I’m sure on an understanding of Acts 6), I am not sure that this model is either intended for the Church or the best idea to operate in. Gene Getz in “Elders and Leaders” categorizes deacons as “ministry assistants” and beleives that they are intended to carry out functions as variously assigned by elders. I am still thinking about it but I don’t like the idea that in a lot of our Churches, deacons can out vote both elders and paid ministers on boards if they really wanted to get their own way, though I don’t think this is usually much of a problem it does point out an inherent weakness in this leadership structure.

Comment on Thinking about deacons, elders, and paid ministers by Rick Walston

Rick Walston — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:35:58 +0000

Like you, I have served in multiple capacities in church life, as both an ordained minister and elder. (I can’t remember if I was ever a deacon, but I don’t think so.) I have tended to view ministers as paid elders, but I can see that they also do much of the work of a deacon. There are aspects of the leadership of an elder that accord very well with Carver’s policy governance model, especially those that have to do with “oversight.” However, that model breaks down as a comprehensive view of the work of an elder when one considers the “people”, “prayer”, and “teaching” responsibilities of an elder. I like your categories. The roles you mention are all leadership roles on one level or another and all require a certain set of skills and a commitment level beyond what we would expect of other church members. I recently had a similar discussion with our president. We were talking about our mission to develop Christian leaders who impact the world for Christ. His response: Not all the students we graduate are destined for leadership. Some are followers. My response: We’re still developing their leadership abilities beyond where they are now, and praying that they continue to develop and become leaders in some capacity.

Comment on Thinking about deacons, elders, and paid ministers by C J Dull

C J Dull — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:56:29 +0000

In the ancient church (ca. 150-600), the deacons did manage the physical plants and the welfare programs of the church. They were generally paid, and, in fact, one of the issues in Rome during Jerome’s days there was that deacons were not eager to move up to presbyter because it usually involved a pay cut. Much of the preaching during this period was done by the presbyters (who were also paid staff); in that function Chrysostom made his reputation while Arius and Nestorius ran into trouble. They also often were in charge of instruction for various parts of the congregation. Before infant baptism became standard, deaconesses often instructed female converts. The bishop could do pretty much what he wanted. Most of them were the senior theologian (e.g., Cyril of Alexandria and a number of popes), ecclesiastical diplomat, senior preacher (e.g., Ambrose and Augustine) and of course administrator. Naturally, he was paid staff as well.

C J

Comment on The Value of a Degree? by D J Donaldson

D J Donaldson — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:55:15 +0000

A major short-coming of a degree earned in some college settings (e.g. on-line degrees that simply add up a total of course content) can be the void of not providing socio-moral-ethical collegial meals, collegial housing, collegial activities, collegial friendships, collegial mentor-ships, chapel, Christian service development, internships, Christian disciplinary action, and the like. Such items — no longer a part of many degrees — are what made Harvard great (check out Harvard’s first 250 years). So, our serious concern is to assure that our students meet verifiably solid standards in general college course content (equivalent to CLEP and AP standards, for example, in English, Physical Science, General Psychology, American History) before we pass them. Are we tough enough? D J D

Comment on ABHE Session #3 – Peter Jones by Dr. Johnson C. Philip

Dr. Johnson C. Philip — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:56:19 +0000

I have enjoyed Peter Jone’s writings now for a long time!!

It has been good visiting your blog!

Johnson C. Philip, PhD
India

Comment on ABHE Session #3 – Peter Jones by D J Donaldson

D J Donaldson — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 19:50:24 +0000

What does Jones’ presentation have to say about the way we do chapel? select themes and topics? choose speakers? assign Scripture reading? do chapel mantra chanting? do SALT? Are we playing into the hands of the god of neo-pagan American culture [excuse the canasta metaphor] — rather than being intentionally counter-cultural — in our student life activities emphases and activities? Our purpose more like creeds guiding deeds — rather than either creeds rather than deeds or deeds rather than creeds? One old theme that appears relevant still is at the heart of the Restoration: Unity [of Christ-followers] through Restoration [of God's Word to its central place] for the purpose of Evangelism [Matthew 28:19-20]. Let’s try it.

Comment on ABHE Opening Session – J.P. Moreland by Debi White

Debi White — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:41:30 +0000

A trillion dittos, David!

What an excellent opportunity to be filled by some of the best . . . namely, J.P Moreland.

Thanks for passing it on. I really appreciated it!

Comment on Providing Notes in Class? by C J Dull

C J Dull — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 03:02:35 +0000

I agree with Ben that the attendance policy is really separate from the issue of providing notes. I think providing notes, which I do not consciously do, is in essence an extension of providing lecture slides and such. This is the first year I have provided church history slides ahead of class. Some just sit there and listen (I used to learn a lot that way so I can’t complain), but most of the more serious students also take notes to add to the lectures rather than being content with them. Some do take notes as if they did not have access to the slides.

C J Dull

Comment on Providing Notes in Class? by Ben Williams

Ben Williams — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:28:08 +0000

I am glad to find a study verifying what we are finding in our classes. I have found that many students do not take notes at all if they expect them to be posted. I also remember my frustration about being “read to” by professors.

I believe that our strict attendance policy has more to do with our numbers than the posting of notes.

I have found that students often need the structure to start with. (Keep in mind, I teach a fair number of freshmen).

I also believe that it is important to put a fair amount of the responsibility on the students. I post many things like assignments and lecture “outlines” (usually with blanks) on the portal simply to get freshmen used to using it.

The disciplinary side of me questions things like posting notes and providing study guides, (tools which most of us did not have as students), but the practical side agrees that this partial note system is a good way to bridge the gap. Many of our students really have no idea where to start, and this can help. I believe that ‘where there is a will, there is an “A”.’ This method is a help to the most willing.

mbw

Comment on If students fail, have teachers failed? by David Fincher

David Fincher — Thu, 29 May 2008 01:14:13 +0000

Excellent points for all of you. But I have a bigger question . . . is there a reason why students were only motivated to attend 2/3 of the time? Did they feel it was too hard, too boring, too irrelevant, something else?

And if the students had that kind of discouragement in the class, what could have the teacher done to turn it around?

David